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Weekly Chatter:Canon i9900 Profile
Monday August 30, 2004

Section 1: Canon i9900 Profile






Site Related > Profile Support > Canon i9900 Profile




















AuthorSubject: Canon i9900 Profile  
Vance Fonnesbeck
Posted on Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:28 PM

I just signed up with your service. Being new to digital photography I do not know a lot of the terminology in use. I was printing on an HP printer (6 color) with HP Premium Glossy Photo paper. It gave excellent results as far as screen output compared to printed output, but it was costing way too much for ink, and I wanted bigger output so I purchased a Canon i9900 Printer.

This printer is fantastic, and is everything I could have hoped it would be, except that with the paper I am using, or any paper really, I have not been able to get output that is the color of the image taken without manipulating it for color. I am not a professional photographer, and my idea is that I would like to just print out the images from my camera without any ajustment unless I want to play with it. I want the prints to match my idea of what the colors should be. The flesh tones on the screen look great, the printed ones are either too blue or too pink. Most of the time too pink or shifted to a light reddish-magenta tone, with a slight blue cast. I am hoping that a printer profile that is professionally done will help this problem. Am I searching in the right direction? Will I be able to understand the directions to do so? Please reply.

Thanks, Vance.


Giorgio Trucco
Posted on Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:07 PM

Vance,
a paper/printer profile will give you a good match between the printer output and the screen display, provided that your monitor is calibrated and profiled, and that you view and print your images using a color managed workflow.

>I want the prints to match my idea of what the colors should be.
If you just output your images on the printer from the camera, what you describe will likely remain impossible.

You should open your images in Photoshop, using a calibrated and profiled monitor.
Then you edit the image until it looks the way "it should", in your opinion.
Only at this point the printer profile will ensure that your actual print looks like the image you saw on your monitor.

Giorgio Trucco




Vance Fonnesbeck
Posted on Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:10 AM

In your opinion, should I buy Photoshop instead of using the ACDSee 5.1 software that came with my camera, a Pentax Optio 555? If so, what version of Photoshop? Is Photoshop Elements 2.0 good enough, or will it be better to get one of the others?

Also regarding your post:
>You should open your images in Photoshop, using a calibrated and profiled monitor.<

Do I need to spend several hundred dollars for a calibration device? I set my monitor to 6500K and I 'think' that the colors look like I would like them to look in the flesh tones, sky, and other parts of the images; on screen that is. And what is a profiled monitor? If I knew what to do, I would like to do better, then of course there is the issue of printer output. I guess I need to decide what type of paper I want to use for the printing of the profile.

I know that I am an amateur, but I am also kind of a perfectionist. If you could recommend some links on the subjects or some topics to search that would help. One search that I did brought up this website and it seems good. When I have time, I would like to send for my free profile, but I want to do it right.

Thanks for your advice.

Vance Fonnesbeck

P.S. My camera is kind of a starter for me. I enjoy outdoor photography and family photos. I am also a full time dentist who is interested in large, poster size, framable portraits of before and after results of cosmetic dental makeovers. I realize that I will probably need to phase into a digital SLR, but I am learning and having fun right now with my compact digital camera.

P.P.S. I just exited and went to the main forum page. If you can steer me in a good direction fine, if not, I guess there seem to be topics there that might answer some of my questions. Again, thanks.


Giorgio Trucco
Posted on Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:24 AM

Let's make a deal here.
You give me a full dental treatment for one year and I give you a printer profile. Ok?
:-)))

Vance,
I'm having a hard time trying to give you the "right" advice.
Please note that, at this level, my opinion counts simply as that, you will probably get different answers from different people.

Color Management is something that falls in the "All or Nothing" domain.
There is no middle ground. You can't have a link in your chain that is not Color Management, because your entire workflow will fall apart.
You can still get decent results with a non-color-managed system, but if you decide to step up a little bit, then you'll need to build a robust color managed system.

Without having and using Photoshop on a regular basis, a printer profile is overkill. You will be better off by simply using the printer Color Management embedded in its driver.

>What version of Photoshop???
Well, it depends on how long you plan to go down this road. If you want to increase your image editing knowledge, and plan to become an advanced user, then I'd suggest you take the plunge and buy a full version of Photoshop.

You don't need to spend several hundreds of dollars for a calibration device, but you'd certainly benefit from some sort of calibration of your monitor. Adobe Gamma (a small utility embedded in Photoshop) might be all you need at the beginning. There are also other independent software that do about the same, the first I can think of from the top of my mind is Sonnetech Colorific.

>And what is a profiled monitor?
Every output device can produce certain colors.
The colors produced by a printer, a scanner or a computer monitor depend on the particular hardware and technology used to produces them. The classical example is the TV shop, where you see several TVs tuned on the same channel and you can notice that each of them produces slightly different colors. These colors are said to be "Device-Dependent Colors", and for a TV or a computer monitor these colors are called RGB colors, since they are produced by a combination of Red, Green and Blue phosphors. Thus RGB colors are not true colors, they are simply "device instructions" that change from device to device.
Color scientists have long ago felt the need to define colors in a way that can be considered "absolute" or Device Independent. They created a system that is called CIE LAB in which any color is defined by its position in a three-dimensional color space.

The CIE LAB incorporates a mathematical model of the human vision, therefore, CIE LAB colors are a precise description of a color as observed by a human observer.
A profiled monitor is a monitor that has been color sampled to establish a precise link between its RGB colors and their CIE LAB equivalents.
This link is needed to be able to send the right RGB instructions to the monitor in order to make it display the color we want. Without this link, a monitor profile, you have no basis to judge your colors on. You simply don't know what colors are being displayed on the monitor and what they should look like.

There are several options for monitor calibration and profiling.
Colorvison, X-Rite, Monaco System and GretagMacbeth are the main Companies who sell these products.

If you want to learn about Color Management I would recommend two books:
Real World Color Management - Fraser, Murphy, Bunting
and/or
Understanding Color Management - Sharma

Good websites I would recommend are:

www.luminous-landscape.com
www.computer-darkroom.com

Hope this helps, at least to get you started.

Giorgio Trucco




Vance Fonnesbeck
Posted on Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:08 PM

If you are still with me on this Giorgio, let me know if I am understanding the directions for doing my profile. For example, if I send in for a profile to print with my Canon i9900 and print the index profile ACDSee software that came with my camera, and a specific paper, then that profile will not be accurate for the same file printed through Canon's Easy Photo Print Plus even with all software enhancing modifications turned off. Right? In other words the profile will be specific for one paper, one software program, ink type, etc.; or, not?

If I need to eventually purchase Photoshop to really do my photos justice, using the above logic, if I were to purchase Photoshop Elements 2.0 at first, send in for my profile and then decide that I would like to purchase Photoshop CS, would I have to get a new profile, or are the different versions of Photoshop able to use the same profile?

Finally, if I calibrate my monitor, then switch monitors, I will still be ok if I have a calibration device or software as this is independent of the printer profiling, right?

I know that my questions are somewhat basic, but I am trying to learn this as a hobby right now as I am not a professional photographer.

Thanks!

Vance Fonnesbeck


Arthur Rosch
Posted on Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:32 AM

Vance, Giorgio gave you an excellent response. Hold off on getting your profile
until you've gotten more familiar with these issues. Read the links he gave you,
Digital Darkroom is a good tutorial. I also use a Canon 9900 but I have a color managed workflow for professional purposes. A monitor calibrator will be useful regardless of what monitor you have. you might also go to Amazon.com and pick up a copy of Photoshop 7.0 for less than a hundred dollars. Coincidentally, I worked with
a dentist setting up his photographic gear and software; the bad news is that
it cost him a few bucks. The good news is that it cost him a few bucks (he paid
me). Take this one step at a time and make sure you are informed before spending
money. A total package to manage your monitor and profile your printer (with any paper and ink you should use) can be
had at such places as Monacosys.com or Colorvision.com. A good monitor-only profiler
as the Profile Mechanic at www.dl-c.com, for less than 200 dollars. If you're
a perfectionist, i can only wish you happy hunting because you are in a field
where perfection is elusive, but results follow an investment of time, study and
money. As Giorgio said, it's all or nothing with color management. I advise
those who can't make the leap to get a box of their favorite paper, tweak their
printer and monitor to the best match they can get, write down those settings
and stay there!

Art


Vance Fonnesbeck
Posted on Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:45 PM

Art, thanks for your reply. I went back to Giorgio's previous post and went to computer-darkroom.com and downloaded some tutorials of Ian Lyons'. I now am starting to understand what was being told to me, and also why I would want to get Photoshop. I guess you are telling me that Photoshop 7 would be good enough to get started, and from the tutorial it seems that if I follow the instructions I will get my monitor calibrated pretty close, possibly enough for a novice like me, and then follow on through the other steps until I am ready to order a profile for my printer.

The instructions were mostly for Epson printers so if anyone has any specific advice for the 'best' way to work through the printer setup and some ideas for paper choices, please let me know before I order a profile. I have had recommended to me Epson Glossy Photo paper from Costco as the cheapest and best, but I don't like the texture and the gloss is not to my liking. I have bought Ilford Classic Smooth Gloss... (I think that's the name), from Sam's Club, and I love the way it looks, but I don't know how it will last. I have ordered a Canon Photo Paper Pro clone from FreePhotoPaper.com and a Konica Glossy-they are nice, but more expensive, and the 13x19 paper is the Canon Pro clone which I will probably use in my dental office poster prints, so maybe I should profile that one and just do my best with the others for now. It is just that they all have such different printing characteristics. This is how I became discouraged and started looking for advice. So far, so good. I think I am on the right track. I really appreciate the responses I have gotten.

Thanks, Vance.


Jim Haefner
Posted on Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:29 PM

Vance, I have been using the 9900 for approximately 4 months now and get excellant results with both the Epson Enhanced Matte (13x19), as well as, Epson Matte Heavyweight (11x14). For glossy prints I use the Canon PhotoPro. B/W prints seem to have a slight warm cast that I haven't been able to eliminate but if you like the look of a selenium toned print it looks great. The greatest advantage for me compared to the Epson 2200 is the dyed based ink's durability, scuffing is not an issue as it is with the Matte Black ink in the 2200. The printer is much faster, as well as, quieter. There are archival issues that could be a problem if your prints were being sold as fine art, mine are primarily used in my portfolio, were my clients seem to feel that are expendable. Spend the time and money to get your monitor calibrated, than have a profile done for the papers you're using (learning photoshop is important too) and your prints should start looking great. Jim Haefner


Arthur Rosch
Posted on Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:08 PM

Vannce, I dodn't like anything glossier than Epson Colorlife. The glossy finishes
are distracting and fragile, and when framed, redundant. Colorlife is nifty for
its saturation. Epson Enahnced or HW matte is solid reliable paper and if I
had to choose a single profile that would be it, for me.

I'm glad you're picking up the fundamentals of color management. it's very
rewarding and when you make a profile yourself and get that bing! right on
feeling, it's a lot of fun. I've been in the position to do reviews of almost
all the color management/profiling systems under $1500 so I have an overview
of the process. Before you send your print in for profiling, make sure
you have followed instructions precisely and that you're familiar with
the terms being used and the reasons why your profile must reflect a consistent
setting in your printer driver, etc. Don't jump the gun and have to do it
all over again.

Art

www.artsdigitalphoto.com


Arthur Rosch
Posted on Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:11 PM

BTW Vance, the Costco photo paper is a cheapo dog, don't go there. I wish they
carried higher end papers. And, yes, Photoshop 7 is plenty of program for you.

Art





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